Completed Maritime Subjects, Scotland: Artists and Subjects 11 Are these Venetian vessels?

They have the look Pieter. The only other place to look would maybe the inner waters of Portugal but the question will be is that in the foreground lateen...it is not clear but if so then not Portual with a VERY few exceptions.

If Venice, and I wanted to find out more, the only place I would ask is http://www.regatastoricavenezia.it/ there is no better group working with the history and present operations.

Thanks for the tip Charles: I don't have any doubts on Venice being the place since we know Smith went there, but not to Portugal or Spain.

See http://www.veniceboats.com/eng-models-work-boats.htm for some models of the above mentioned Venetian-style vessels. The shape of the boat and the large rudder can also be found amongst Greek fishing boats, and the style essentially applies to the Adriatic and Ionian seas. Additional clues might be found here, in the depiction of the two-masted Batelo a Pisso and Bragosso designs:

http://www.velaalterzo.it/?q=node/13

See additionally:

http://www.velaalterzo.it/?q=node/841

Also, the small red band of colour to the rear of this discussion's main vessel might well match with the colouring of the Batelo a Pisso design as show in the attached image.

Here is picture of Bragasso from roughly the same angle.Mind you the rudder in the painting is all out of proportion-perhaps a mishmash of little schetches?

The rudder's position is movable, in to and out of the water, depending on whether the boat is moored or not, and to cope with the shallow waters of the likes of a Venetian lagoon. The facility is illustrated in the bottom right hand corner of the attachment above for the Batelo a Piso. This is not to suggest that it is not also an available feature of a Bragosso. Which ever style the boat turns out to be, the mechanism and design are very comprehensively illustrated here:

http://www.veniceboats.com/eng-designs-boats-fishing.htm

That's a very useful set of plans but, while I don't think its a bragozzo (they are really big and blocky), I think being more specific on the exact Venetian boat type is perhaps best left to others: it doesn't quite have the bow profile of a 'batelo a piso' for example and is also unfinished in that area (the small boat in front is only half there). For our purposes the essential point is that we are looking at 'Venetian working boats' -broadly speaking- in terms of a better title for the picture. The sails hoisted are up to air, not go anywhere, as also suggested by the awning arrangement and lack of activity - so one might add 'at moorings'. Perhaps the collection would like to consider one or other of those rather than just 'boats'.

I am happy with 'Venetian working boats' and will change the name if no one objects.

I recommend that: the image is not rapidly going to allow resolution of exact boat type here (possibly a sailing topo or a 'batelo a piso' rather than a bragozzo-which are bigger and more blocky- and sanpierotte behind). Its also a technical rather than artistic discussion perhaps better pursued elsewhere, but you now have sources to help. 'Working' is the key word -i.e. cargo/fishing types.

As the collection has amended the painting title on Art UK, I will now close this discussion.