The other works are better painted and show a more sophisticated use of lighting; this looks more crude and vaguely amateurish, and it may well be a copy.

It'd be helpful to see an image of the painting with its frame and an image of the reverse. Is there anything in the records of Bootle Art Gallery to help us? Without further feeds of this kind it is going to be difficult to make progress.

Stephen Whittle, Principal Manager, The Atkinson has said
'I will have a look at the portrait of an unknown man when I can get back into the art store. Unfortunately there are very few records of the paintings that came to us from Bootle Art Gallery back in the 1970s'

It'd still be helpful to see an image of the painting with its frame and an image of the reverse.

Otherwise, has the time come to close this six-month old discussion?

Jacob, I have asked the Collection if it is possible to do this in order to reinvigorate this discussion, David

On a related note, but not about this painting necessarily, the artist John A. F. Lederer is recorded on baptismal records of his children in the 1860s as Johann Adam Friderich [sic] Lederer. The census of 1881 says he was born in Frankfurt in Germany. So Art UK's artist info about him could be updated. It doesn't necessarily help with the identification of this portrait though.

Stephen Whittle, Principal Manager, The Atkinson, kindly indicated a year ago, that he hoped to have a look at the portrait when he could get back into the art store with a view to providing an image of the painting with its frame and an image of the reverse. Is it worth Art UK following this up?

Jacob, I have asked Stephen by email about this. Regards, David

Now two years since Stephen hoped to access the picture.

It is amazing what Stephen has achieved at the Atkinson in his time there - it appeared to be a slumbering institution when I worked in Liverpool. One has to take into account the very small staff in institutions in small towns

I echo that. But in the end Art UK has to decide whether to continue a discussion or close it in the face of realities on the ground. I am influenced by Martin who started this discussion.

Jacob, I entirely agree with the general direction of your comments and your attempts to bring conclusions to long outstanding problems, - sadly not every owning institution seem to fully understand Art UK's objectives
During my time as a curator a few large instututions never answered at all!

Unfortunately, lack of response from collections small and large, for whatever reason(s), is a very common obstacle to improving the database of knowledge for works on Art UK. This is even more prevalent for non-public or behind-the-scenes attempted discussions, of which there is a much larger backlog than for public discussions.