Completed British 19th C, except portraits, Continental European after 1800, Scotland: Artists and Subjects 19 Can you identify this piazza, painted by Thomas Stuart Smith?

What one has to bear in mind about large Italian churches, public buildings and piazzas that in many cases there were a lot of architectural alterations and additions not long after Stuart Smith's time in Italy as a result of the Risorgimento and the revival of Catholic church building which often obscure what the centre of cities looked like in the mid nineteenth century. However, there were a great many architectural photographs taken from the late 1840s onwards which may provide the answer to this question

Palermo Cathedral.

Its certainly very similar. We have no record of smith going to Palermo but then no reason why he could not.

Julian should know it very well as he spends much of his time in Sicily - I can confirm that it is Palermo from my one visit there.

For the purposes of comparison, a good artistic representation of Palermo Cathedral, c.1840, can be seen in the attached image. It is based on a drawing by W. L. Leitch, as engraved by J. H. Le Keux. In it, one can see the various statues on the parapet above each side of the main entrance, which have since been moved down to ground level. One can also clearly see the original position of the statue of Santa Rosalia, the patron saint of Palermo, as it was located in front of the Cathedral's main doors, which is now to be found further to the right of this spot.

The view can be dated between 1840 and 1844. This was when the superstructure of a central belfry and four lower turrets were added to the detached western tower, replacing an earlier superstructure. The central belfry tower is the tallest tower visible in the painting. On the extreme right appears what I think must be the unfinished bottom part of one of the 1840-44 turrets. The much more slender tower between the two, and its companion of which only the top is visible are the fourteenth century corner towers of the nave. The nineteenth century architect of the restoration took the design of the new towers from those of the fourteenth century. It is one of the first examples of Gothic revival in Sicily.

The statues at the top of the piers on either side of the porch (it is the South porch, added 1430, the main entrance to the cathedral) are visible in the painting but they are not there now. They were removed in one of the 20th century restorations. They are present in a photo of 1929 (fig. 83, Bellafiore, The Cathedral of Palermo, 1976) but not in the modern photos in the same book (figs 85, 87) presumably taken c 1976.

For further consideration, but not meaning to do a disservice to the man, if there is no record of Stuart Smith ever having visited Palermo, and given the similarity of the point-of-view from which he painted this picture, as compared to that of Leitch's in the 1840 engraving, could the former have composed his work using the engraving as a guide? Stuart Smith is known to have started his visits to Italy in 1840 as well. Palermo is 425 miles from Amalfi, where he definitely visited, but would of could he have made the trip in the 1840s?.

Well done on the identification, though I should have spotted it, having also spent much time in Sicily- albeit long back and only in Palermo once or twice. There's a related view by Smith from round the back also in the tranche of his stuff I've raised points on.

This is the one that now appears to be round the back of the cathedral at Palermo:

https://www.artuk.org/discover/artworks/architectural-study-of-a-town-127647/view_as/grid/search/keyword:thomas-stuart-smith/page/8


and this one also shows he was there, not copying other images:

https://www.artuk.org/discover/artworks/a-seaside-grotto-near-palermo-127427/search/keyword:thomas-stuart-smith/page/7

The obvious titles would be 'The Cathedral at Palermo' and 'Behind the Cathedral at Palermo'.

Have updated this information and changed title on the Portal to The Palermo Cathedral Piazza

True, but more specifically 'Palermo Cathedral from the Monte de Pieta', which is the name of the piazza.

This related one (below) by Smith is 'View down the Via Matteo Bonello, Palermo': it looks roughly south, showing the twin buttress arches that connect the west end of the cathedral on the left to the east end and tower of the Chiesa di Santa Maria la Vetere on the right:

https://www.artuk.org/discover/artworks/architectural-study-of-a-town-127647/view_as/grid/search/keyword:thomas-stuart-smith/page/8

The Monte di Pieta/ piazza is beyond the arches, to the left,

Sorry: 'di' not 'de' in first 'Monte di Pieta'

I am not an expert on the topography of Palermo but it seems that the Monte di Pietà is the old central district of Palermo and Piazza del Monte di Pietà is the current name for the square in front of the cathedral. On 1912 and 1929 maps it is called the Piazza del Duomo.

Actually the view is through the gates off the neighbouring street, so strictly speaking it is, Palermo Cathedral from (what is now) the Via Simone di Bologna (despite what Google maps says). Should we use current names or those of Smith's day?

Thanks Andrew: its probably up to SSMAG to decide how they catalogue their stuff, though my advice would be to use the names of the period if known with '(now the Piazza del XXXX)' if there's been a radical change. Though I don't have it to hand, information available on Smith -albeit not very clear as to its ultimate authority since in a rather badly edited and largely unreferenced 1995 article on him (and one sometimes rather at odds with the 1890s Smith Institute guidebook) also suggests that he made visits to Sicily in 1840-41, which is probably when these items date from.

If this work is to be dated to between 1840 and 1844, as suggested above, and the other work that has now been identified as the Colonna dell’Immacolata (Column of the Immaculate Conception), which stands in the Piazza San Domenico in the centre of Palermo ( https://bit.ly/2w585Nj ) was executed after 1854, it suggests that Smith made several visits to Palermo during thirties and early forties. This time span might pose problems when trying to identify other drawings and paintings in what seems like Stirling's large collection of his undated and unnamed works. Acute attention must therefore be paid to any architectural features or developments that were occurring over this time period.

Good point: in which case it may have been much later, after his long struggle, apparently while remaining in England to establish his claim to his uncle's Scottish estate, from 1849 to early 1856.

This is a rough timeline, slightly expanded from the one published in 1995 to fill in apparent dates which the original misses out and is therefore not very clear: unfortunately there's so far nothing more specific:

1835/6 In London, hears of his father's death, and of the existence of his uncle Alexander, in Scotland. Receives first gift of money from uncle in September [?1835].

Tutor to Henri de Meffray, with whose family he is living near
Grenoble.

[1838] Arrives in Naples with the de Meffray family, possibly in May.

[1839] By September he is living on his own, being supported by his uncle and studying art seriously.

[1840] Still in Naples, but visits Sicily at the end of the year [c. September].

[1841?] Again visits Sicily, possibly from October until May 1842.

1843-47 In Naples. Venice and Rome areas, continually painting,
and still receiving financial support from his uncle
.
1848 Possible prolonged residence in Rome. In November. Mazzini declares the Roman Republic.

1849 In Paris by May, bringing pictures for the Paris Salon and the London Royal Academy. Has works accepted for both exhibitions. In Paris he hears of his uncle's death, then travels to London.

1850-55 Thomas gathers evidence for his claim to Alexander Smith's estate. He earns money by painting portraits and teaching, including a period based in Nottingham (where James Orrock is one of his pupils).

1856 In February, learns of the success of his case. In Italy the following
winter.

1857 Takes up residence at Glassingall House near Dunblane.

1858-62 Lives mostly at Glassingall, with occasional visits to Italy.

1863 Sells Glassingall estate, and moves to Bedford Hotel in
London, where he lives for about two vears before leasing a studio and living accommodation at 35 Fitzroy Square, his home to his death. (Other late European tours, but none itemized)

Having belatedly looked at Graves's RA list, reports of Smith first exhibiting at the RA in 1850 are mistaken. So wherever he showed the exhibited version of his 'Monk's Welcome' in that year, which was subsequently reported as bought by Prof. Richard Owen and much admired by Landseer, it wasn't there. His only RA canvas was 'A Fellah of Kinneh', shown in 1869, when he was also involved in a 'Select Supplementary Exhibition' project in London (ie a
'salon des refuses') in which his RA-rejected 'Pipe of Freedom' was included. His exhibiting history -apparently slight- evidently still needs clarification.

I think we can now close this Discussion with the recommendation that the subject is 'Palermo Cathedral from the Piazza del Monte di Pietà' and it can be dated to 1840-44. Thnaks to all.