Completed British 19th C, except portraits, Maritime Subjects, Military History 26 Further information sought on maritime artists Joseph Miles Gilbert and G. Gilbert

Pieter, General William Gilbert of the Bombay Infantry was not a brother to J. M. Gilbert. Although they both lived in Boldre for some years, they were born 18 years apart, at different locations and to different parents.
In the 1851 Census, J.M.G. gives his name as Miles Gilbert, this ties in with the painting signed M. Gilbert. I suspect that he used his middle name to differentiate himself from Joseph F. Gilbert a landscape painter based in Chichester. The latter painter died in 1856, enabling Joseph M.Gilbert to revert to his full name in the 1861 & 1871 Census.

Thanks Cliff: I said 'reportedly' because the first information I found about JMG was online in a memoir by Peter McNally, a descendant and former executive of London Weekend TV ('The Time of My Life…', 2013, p. 3) which was fairly comprehensively wrong on most points about him so I'm not surprised this was too, since I couldn't find a Wiliam sibling by an Ancestry search either. He said, for example, that he was born not 1799 but 1777- which was in fact the date of his father, Joseph's birth.

Maurice Bradshaw - who was Secretary of the RSBA in the 1970s, I think did an earlier published listing of artists who exhibited at Suffolk Street than the 1975 ACC one, butI don't have ready access to a copy: if anyone has and can see if it supplies the details on when JMG showed there - or 'M.Gilbert' if that's how it appears (and any address attached) that would help make up the six Graes attributed to him showing in London. These are the list so far, in date order:

1825 (RA) 17 Prospect Place, Wandsworth – 'Dutch Boat getting under Weigh'
1827 (BI) 17 Prospect Place Wandsworth Rd- 'Coast Scene- Sunrise'
1828 (BI) 10 Westbourne Place, Chelsea – 'Marine Piece'
1829 (Suffolk Street galleries/SBA) no address, ‘M. Gilbert’ [sic] ‘Sea Piece’ [SBA consolidated cat. ACC version, 1975, but no second work listed]
1855 (RA) Lymington, Hants – 'Fort Victoria, Sconce Point, Nr Yarmouth, Isle of Wight'

Here is the list of 24 views contained within the 1832 publication "Views of the principle Seats...."
- Hurst Castle and the Needles from Pilewell
- Walhampton House
- Proposed suspension bridge across the Lymington River
- Hurst Castle from Keyhaven
- Boldre Church
- Newlands
- Milford. Hants.
- Yarmouth, Isle of Wight
- Palace House, Beaulieu Hants
- Christchurch, Hants
- Newtown Park
- Lymington Harbour
- The Alarm winning the Ladies Challenge Cup
- Haven House, near Christchurch, Hants
- Lymington, Hants.
- High Street, Lymington
- High Street, Lymington
- Solent Sea Baths, Lymington, Hants.
- Norton Lodge
- Southeast view of Heron Court
- Lymington Roads
- Pylewell Manor House
- Hincheslea Lodge
- Lyndhurst, Hants.

As the N.M.M.'s painting of the "Alarm" is one of the images in the book, there are still 23 to find :-))

This appears to be the original painting of "Haven House, near Christchurch" although I cannot trace who owns it.
http://www.fineartbase.com/JM-Gilbert/haven-House-Near-Christchurch-And-christchurch-Priory-oil-painting.html

Many thanks for providing the list - NMM has a few of these prints as separate items (inc. the 'Alarm' one as already noted, though I hadn't so far made that connection) but none bear direct inscriptions that they are from it, so this is useful. The first issue of 4 -it was a part-publication like many similar- was apparently in April 1832 from a note of their appearance in the 'Literary Gazette...' for May 1832 (p. 331). I'll update records accordingly.

These were auctioned by Christie's in 1839.

"A vessel stranded on the shingles of the Isle of Wight" - Christies Feb 22nd 1839 - seller Grove, buyer Pennell.

"Dutch boats in a breeze, off the Brill" - same sale, same seller, buyer William Smart.

And these March 13th, 1830:

"Shipping, in a fresh Breeze"
'A pair of Sea Views -- brisk gale'

Name down for the seller is 'Buchan of Southampton' - this is probably Henry Buchan who opened the Hampshire Picture Gallery on Southampton's high street in 1827. The sale catalogue lists these two as 'modern' which has been crossed out and replaced with 'Gilbert'. It seems quite likely that Buchan had purchased the Gilbert's to retail in his gallery couldn't sell them, so put them in Christie's (or another similar theory). William Shayer exhibited many pictures at Buchan's (he eventually moved next door) it could either be a co-incidence or another error, but in Lewis's 'The Shayer Family of Painters' there is a listing of artists who exhibited at Buchan's that includes Joseph Francis Gilbert. If Lewis only had initials and surnames in the source to work from he may have cited the wrong Gilbert.

I don`t know if this is of any relevence Pieter, but the baptism of some of JNG's children appear in the Catholic Registers of Pylewell House, Lymington, from as early as 1831. Presumably he was living in the vicinity.
http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Catholic-Record-Society-Miscellanea-Ix-Volume-14/190034/340#339

That is interesting: I've only seen the children's ages from the census returns so far, not tried to check birth records which is how I estimated that he went to live down there about 1830. Charles, born in 1828 - which was presumably in London (but baptized with Lucy in 1831) clearly did not survive long, but adds one to the total. Lucy is the oldest in the 1851 census and the only one specifically stated as born at Lymington rather than Boldre (as younger siblings were, though as near as makes no difference). Being Catholic is incidental of itself, but look who the sponsors are - all members of the Weld family of Lulworth and Lymington, leading Catholic landowners in Dorset (Joseph Weld being the great yachtsman). This suggests that JMG's career was one based substantially on patronage amid local gentry, including the Cowes yachting circle.

I've now amended the NMM entry again, taking in the refinements, and sent PCF a minor one for the shorter Your Paintings version. I also found the copy of Gilbert's complete 'Views of principal Seats' at Yale - the one signed by the Lymington publisher Richard Grove as well as dedicated to Admiral Sir Harry Burrard Neale (not Heale - which they need to correct). From this it is clear I think that all 24 appeared in 1832 co-published by Grove, Ackermann in London and two Southampton names (Spencer & Son and Joyce & Co), as mentioned in the 'Literary Gazette' of May 1832, p. 331. However, all four we have - which will also now appear on-line - are published by Day & Haghe and R. Galpine, two being dated 1838, so it looks like there was a later reissue. The 'Alarm' one was not from the oil direct but from some other near version -presumably watercolour- as there are some clear differences in detail (e.g. treatment of the topsail, a red flag rather than a Union on the stake-boat, and a distant paddle steamer far right in the print but not the oil).

The Hampshire Advertiser and Salisbury Guardian of 6 May 1848, contained an advertisement by Richard Andrew Grove (marine publisher and printseller) of Lymington. He proposed disposing of his personal collection of 130 paintings, collected over 30 years, by lottery. He proposed to sell 1,000 tickets. Each ticket entitled the purchaser to 2 free lithographs, plus a chance to win a more valuable painting.
The following week, the same newspaper contained a short report on some of the paintings in Mr Grove's catalogue.
"No. 1286, and the three following numbers, are the original pictures, painted by J.M.Gilbert, to illustratethe visit of our gracious Sovereign to Spithead at the departure of the Experimental Squadron, July 15th, 1845. The catalogue states that one of the pictures, "the fleet getting under weigh," was purchased by the Queen: this certainly has broken the set as a whole; yet each picture is a subject distinct in itself, and a very beautiful series of cabinet pictures. They are in elegant frames, surmounted with a crown, in honour of the distinguished patronage of the Sovereign. The lithographic prints taken from the pictures by that accomplished artist Mr. Haghe, and published by Mr. Grove, were patronised by one thousand subscribers, the Queen heading the list."

Thanks again Cliff: this appears to be the oil painting , though the Royal Collection needs to correct their cataloguing of it (i.e. it was not a 'naval review') which shows that they have not tied up with the related lithographs despite having a copy of the set in the Library at Windsor:

https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/search#/31/collection/403617/the-naval-review-at-spithead-15-july-1845

In this case it does suggest all the originals were oils.

It looks as if “The Lymington Distribution” as Mr Grove’s lottery was called, may never have taken place!
The draw was initially scheduled to be held in August 1848, but it kept being deferred until he had sold more tickets. The draw was finally scheduled for 22 May 1849, but Mr Grove died in the previous month. The local papers contain no reports about The Lymington Distribution in the months and years following his death.

How did you gain access to Pylewell?

Answer: relevant Catholic Records Soc. volume link is in third entry by Cliff Thornton above this point.

Pieter, we have not spent any time discussing "G Gilbert", who was the original target of your discussion. Is he still of interest to you, or do you think that writers may have confused him with J.M.Gilbert?

All things a possible but I find it hard to believe: so far the only three subjects we know by 'G. Gilbert' are those stated at top, all naval, all 1812-14 in terms of the wartime incidents shown (though the litho one is 1830-37 from the dedication to Wm IV, but presumably from an oil painted earlier), all apparently for the same naval patron, R-Adm John Hayes (d. 1838) and from the time he was a fighting captain in the late Napoleonic period - when JMG was about 13-14. The hand also looks like a good and mature late-18th-century to c 1820s one, not a picturesque coastal topographer and yacht subject painter-though JMG clearly could do naval subjects but with a distinctly early Victorian look for those we know of that date.

As R-Admiral Hayes lived in Southsea, I have been looking for an artist named G Gilbert who worked in the Portsmouth area. The following artist is worthy of consideration. George Gilbert was born in Portsmouth in Dec. 1815, in 1841 he emigrated to Australia. Although he had a variety of jobs outside of the art world, he is listed as multi-talented artist on the database at https://www.daao.org.au/bio/george-gilbert/
He could have been in his early 20s when he painted the marine scenes for R-Admiral Hayes, who died in Southsea in early 1838. Gilbert's emigration would explain the dearth of his works in the UK.

From the information in the link supplied above, under 'Biography', this appears to be one of the sons of John Francis Gilbert of Chichester (d. 1855). My instinct is that he is not the 'G. Gilbert' we seek, albeit only because e pictures do not strike me as of a style formed in the 1830s and because I suspect that Hayes would have commissioned them closer to the events they show. Happy to be proved wrong of course...

Neither of the Gilberts in whom we are interested are recorded as exhibiting at the Society of British Artists in the Maurice Bradshaw volume [ the only Gilbert is Sir John]

Thank you Martin: as Cliff Thornton pointed out right at the top here, the 'M. Gilbert' who showed a 'Sea piece' at the SBA in 1829 -as listed in the 1975 single volume on its exhibitors- may be JMG, who appears to have favoured the name Miles rather than Joseph: i.e. that is what he gave to the 1851 census and-more unusually since not a 'Christian' name - it is the only one that appears in the Cathoic baptismal records of his first four children (the others' so far not located, if they exist). However, on current showing Graves's statement that he showed two works at Suffolk Street seems adrift since not repeated in either Bradshaw's or the ACC 1975 listings.

It would be worth checking for these Gilberts in Graves' unpublished manuscript volumes [National Art Library] , which cover other London exhibiting societies and institutions of the period - they will appear [if at all] in the G volume

I'll bear that in mind for the 'to do' list: locating other pictures would also be useful. I wouldn't be surprised to find one or two with the Royal Yacht Squadron for instance.

The Royal Yacht Squadron have replied they have no examples by J.M. Gilbert and a family descendant report cited in James Taylor's book 'Yachts on Canvas' that he was 'official' painter to the Royal Solent Yacht Club is wrong (it was only established much later, and they have no record of such a connection). The one useful comment this source adds is that his work is rare because he was reputed a perfectionist who destroyed things with which he was not satisfied.

Joseph Miles Gilbert was the son of William Miles and Eleanor Gilbert. He was born 21 August 1772 in Shrewton, Wiltshire, England. He died Circa 1833. He had a daughter called Sarah. I do not know if he was an Artist - but I do think it is worth looking to the Gilbert family from Wiltshire. There is a memorial to the family in the Church of Mary's. Joseph Gilbert (junior) who was his cousin, was born cicra 1777 and died 1840 Boltre, Hampshire, and yes, he did have a brother called William Gilbert, who died 5 November 1866, as per the family wills. Thank you for a most interesting website, and great success with your research .

Thanks for the collateral family information but, so as not to confuse the issue amid the recurring names, it is clear that the painter Joseph Miles Gilbert who is under discussion here was born in London on 26 April 1799, son of Joseph and Matilda Ann Gilbert; he died at Boldre, Lymington, Hants on 18 April 1876. It is interesting that he may have had a brother called William, but as also stated above, this was apparently not the man who became an Indian army general.

I wish we could find some more oil paintings by him: its not impossible in style terms that the ones originally mentioned as by 'G. Gilbert' might be -since there is no trace of any others by a 'G. Glbert' - but with only two later oils identified by JMG, and both very different as regards subject, meaningful comparisons are at present impossible.

I don't think we are getting any further with this until more marine oils by either J. M. Gilbert or 'G. Gilbert' turn up to make useful comparisons, so suggest we call a halt. The former is clearly a rare bird in terms of surviving oils and the latter ditto, if he has an independent existence at all, which I'm increasingly inclined to doubt (i.e. I suspect it may be J.M. all through). We do at least no more about J. M. Gilbert, which I summarize as follows, based on the discussion here and mainly genealogical sources. This is also logged in the NMM database file for the 'Alarm' picture (BHC4182):

Joseph Miles Gilbert (1799–1876), marine and landscape artist.

Gilbert was born in London on 26 April 1799, son of Joseph and Matilda Ann Gilbert. His artistic training is unknown but he was living in Bristol when, in 1823, he won a silver Isis Medal from the Royal Society of Arts for a marine painting, one of many awards it made in various areas (see its ‘Transactions’, 1841, p. xxxviii). According to Graves he exhibited two pictures each, all marine subjects, at the Royal Academy, the British Institution and Society or British Artists between 1825 and 1855 though only one by ‘M. Gilbert’ in 1829 is noted in modern lists at the last. This was from London addresses (when stated) in the 1820s: the last, an Isle of Wight coastal view at the Academy in 1855 was from Lymington, Hants. He married Lucy Squire (b. c.1809) at St Anne’s, Soho, on 7 August 1827 and they had seven or eight children, five or six sons and two daughters, of whom the oldest (Charles, born in London on 26 August 1828), and youngest (Francis, born 1845), and possibly another son, appear to have died young. About 1830 the Gilberts moved to Lymington, where their second child, Lucy, was born on 22 January 1831 and, with Charles, baptized Roman Catholic on 22 February as were the next two boys, Thomas and William Aloysius, b. 1833 and 1836 (Catholic Record Society: ‘Miscellanea IX’, pp. 305–06, Registers of Pylewell House, Lymington). Subsequent baptism records are missing but it thus appears that Gilbert, at least, had converted to that faith since he was originally baptised in the Church of England (at St James, Piccadilly, 22 May 1799). More significantly, the recorded godfathers of Charles, Lucy and Thomas, were members of the Catholic Weld family of Lulworth Castle, Dorset, and the Pylewell estate Lymington, of whom the celebrated yachtsman, Joseph Weld (1777–1863) was then secular head (his elder brother, Thomas, d. 1837, being the first English Catholic cardinal since the 17th century): local Catholic baptisms, including the Gilberts’, took place at Pylewell House though Weld sold the estate in 1853. Given the few works Gilbert showed in London and that the only oil in a British public collection is of Weld’s most famous yacht, ‘Alarm’, winning her first race at Cowes in 1830 (NMM, Greenwich), this suggests the possible circles of his patronage, though family tradition reports him a perfectionist who destroyed work with which he was unsatisfied (see James Taylor: Yachts on Canvas, [1998, and repr. 2006] p. 75). In 1832 he published ‘Views of the principal Seats, and Marine and Landscape Scenery in the vicinity of Lymington, Hants, from original Pictures taken on the spot by J. M. Gilbert, Marine Painter’: these appeared in parts, lithographed by Louis Haghe, and originally co-published by R. A. Grove (d. 1849) in Lymington, although subsequently reissued by others in 1838. In 1846 Queen Victoria headed the list of subscribers to ‘The Experimental Squadron: a series of drawings on stone by L. Haghe, from paintings by J.M. Gilbert illustrative of H.M. visit to Spithead, July 15, 1845’, also co-published by Grove, and purchased one of the oil paintings on which these were based (Royal Collection). This work also saw a rapid second edition in 1846. By 1833 Gilbert and his family were living in Boldre, Lymington, probably at 2 Holly Cottage where he remained to his death on 18 April 1876. His wife may have predeceased him in 1864 (at Wimborne, Dorset, Oct qtr). They do not appear in the 1841 census but in that for 1851, and in the Catholic baptismal records, he appears only as ‘Miles Gilbert’. This may have been the name he favoured (though his prints and the RA and BI lists use the initials ‘J. M’), perhaps in part to avoid confusion with other artists of similar name, such as Joseph Francis Gilbert of Chichester (d. 1856). Note that misinformation in print about Gilbert includes that he was official painter to the Royal Solent Yacht Club and a brother of General William Gilbert of the Bombay Infantry. [PvdM, December 2015]