The Collection have commented: ‘We’ve had a chance to check the painting itself, and can confirm that there are no marks, inscriptions or labels on the back and that it is not signed. We’d be happy for you to open up a public discussion on the painting and to read views on it.’

I have asked the Collection if they have any information about when and how it was acquired, or when first recorded as being in their Collection and will report back.

Could a hi-res of the attached area be posted? It appears that there is some inscription or lettering there.

I'd like to believe that the collection would have reported an inscription.

Kieran, attached. Looks like measurements, which fits with the arrows visible bottom left too. David

Does the Art UK images shows the whole of the painting?

One of the measurements reads 8' 4" and the one below is possibly is 27' 7". Given that the Art UK image measures 61.6 x 61.2 cm, could this be a sketch for a more massive painting, or perhaps a mural?

The 1984 National Portrait Gallery catalogue for "Glyn Philpot, 1884-1937: Edwardian Aesthete to Thirties Modernist" contained the following lines: "The squared-up colour modello for Philpot's mural for St Stephen's Hall , Westminster (see nos . 93 and 150 ). The brightness and freshness of the colours perhaps give a better indication of Philpot's original than the large ..."

There are other references to Philpot and murals elsewhere.

"Does the Art UK image show......" (it has been a tiring week!)

Kieran, we would have to ask that next week. Attached is the work for St Stephen's Hall. David

If not by Glyn Philpot, could this modello be by his young friend Vivian Forbes, who was introduced to the art world by Philpot and who also worked on murals, including one in the House of Lords? Several references state that Forbes' style was similar to that of Philpot's.

I would have thought Liss Llewellyn might be the people to ask here, or Alan Powers, who wrote a book on British Art murals from 1920 to 1970. Alas I don't have the book to help. I might be able to establish contact with Liss Llewellyn Monday.

David, I have a copy of the book British Murals & Decorative Painting 1920-1960 published in 2013. I also have Glyn Philpot: His Life and Art by J.G.P.Delaney, published in 1999. The author had the valuable assistance of Philpot's nieces and he includes a comprehensive list of Philpot's work, not just the work illustrated in that book. I'll look at both of these books in more detail.

That's really kind Grant. David

In the London Magazine (Volume 24, 1984) an interesting snippet appears (Google reveals not more) that reads: "....between Philpot's early and late manner. There is pleasure to be found in work done under the signs of Ricketts and Shannon, not least mythological subjects which so delighted Ricketts. 'Melampus and the Centaur' (1919) was...."

According to the link below, Charles Ricketts (1866 - 1931), Charles Haslewood Shannon (1863 - 1937), Glyn Philpot (1884 - 1937) and Vivian Forbes (1891 - 1937) were all associated with the Lansdowne House artists' studios on Lansdowne Road in Holland Park, London. Philpot and Forbes shared a home and studio there from 1923 to 1935.

https://www.londonremembers.com/memorials/artists-studios-w11

From a different snippet of the above-referenced "Glyn Philpot, 1884-1937: Edwardian Aesthete to Thirties Modernist", the following might be of relevance and potentially ties Philpot and Forbes, though familiar exposure to the therein-mentioned painting, to this work's Art UK title:

"It was not only Ricketts's work which was influential on Philpot , but also his scholarship and enthusiasms . The well-known Piero di Cosimo picture, The Fight between the Lapiths and the Centaurs , which he and Shannon bequeathed to (the National Gallery) ..."

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/piero-di-cosimo-the-fight-between-the-lapiths-and-the-centaurs

This suggests that the theme was certainly familiar to the four artists just mentioned.

The attached composite might be worth considering.

It is also worth considering the influence that Charles Ricketts might have had on the style of painting seen in this record's artwork:

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/search/actor:ricketts-charles-s-18661931

The style reminds me of Surrealist work.

While by no means offered as conclusive proof, it is worth noting the similarities in the use of the margin arrows in the mark-up of this painting and a drawing known to be by Philpot on the Art UK website:

https://bit.ly/3uo1j1D

Does the collection have accession details for the work?

Could this date close to Ithell Colqhoun's 1930 Judgement of Paris [Brighton]?

I've checked our catalogue records for this painting. It was catalogued on 27/6/2003, but I could find no details about when it came into the collection. Systematic cataloguing of our collection only began in 2002, when many items were simply found in store. It's listed as c.1930.

(Posted on behalf of Simon Martin)

"I am currently writing a monograph on Glyn Philpot to coincide with the forthcoming exhibition at Pallant House Gallery. Philpot painted mythological themes throughout his life, indeed centaurs feature in his 'Melampus and the Centaur' (1919) and 'The Repose on the Flight into Egypt' (1922), however, a work of this title does not appear in any of the artist's records, whether in letters, photographs, or Daisy Philpot's listing of subject paintings in the Tate Archive. Although Philpot would have known the Piero di Cosimo painting of the Battle of the Lapiths and Centaurs owned by his friends Ricketts and Shannon, this does not look (to me) like Philpot's handling of paint or treatment of composition. He did teach at the Royal Academy Schools in the 1920s and so it is conceivable that it is by one of his students.
Simon Martin, Director, Pallant House Gallery"

In the introduction, we were told that this work used to be known as ‘Mythological Study’. I think the old title shows that this work is related to Philpot’s 1933 work ‘Mythological Scene’, which was in a 2005 Sotheby’s auction. https://tinyurl.com/yckzjevs.

It seems to me that the woman in white and the man behind her in ‘Mythological Scene’ are very similar to the woman and the centaur in the foreground of the Birmingham work. The headless creature in the background of this work is much like the man in the top right corner of ‘Mythological Scene’. There is also a similar baby in both works. Finally, the woman in the red dress in this work is much like the woman in the light blue dress in ‘Mythological Scene’.

It would be useful if all thirteen of Philpot's mythological studies at the Courtauld could be seen.

Also, I wonder if one of Philpot's students would have been marking up this work for a large mural, if that is what the measurements on the margins imply that they are there for.

I have checked the various books and catalogues I have on Glyn Philpot and I cannot find reference to the Battle of the Lapiths and Centaurs. In particular the book by J.G.P.Delaney titled 'Glyn Philpot: His Life and Art' published in 1999, makes it clear the author had considerable assistance from GP's nieces, Rosemary Newgas and Gabrielle Cross 'who opened up all her Philpot material to me'. The author published a comprehensive list of GP works, including Decorations and there is no reference to 'our' work.

I also think the comments of Simon Martin via Tim Williams on 7th February carry considerable weight.

I think that it might be worth mentioning for research purposes, that until very recently, the title of the painting was known as ‘Mythological Study’.

Thank you S. Elin Jones. I have checked the Delaney book and I could not find it in the list of works under 'Mythological Study'. On re-checking the NPG catalogue of 1984/85 I couldn't find it there either. I think you are right in seeing the influence of Philpot in this work and as Simon Martin has suggested, it could possibly be by one of his students. It strikes me as being a 'Circle of Glyn Philpot' painting but without a clear provenance I think it would be difficult to catalogue it fully.