Completed British 19th C, except portraits, Dress and Textiles, Military History, Sculpture, South West England: Artists and Subjects 64 comments What more could we establish about the sculptor A.E.M. Bayly and the subject of this sculpture?
Photo credit: Guernsey Museums and Galleries
An M. Bayly based in Brighton exhibited a work ‘The death of Marmion’ at the Royal Academy in 1868, as no. 1093. https://bit.ly/3GqZVxq Perhaps an open discussion could uncover more about the artist. The figure is probably a soldier, possibly Ottoman or Greek, though that is speculative. [Group leader: Katharine Eustace]
This discussion is now closed. The title has been updated to ‘Kneeling Figure (possibly in Zouave uniform)’ and the medium has been confirmed as Parian ware (biscuit porcelain), not plaster. A biography of the artist has been produced for Art UK.
Thank you to everyone who contributed to the discussion. To anyone viewing this discussion for the first time, please see below for all the comments that led to this conclusion.
The Collection has commented: ‘The sculpture subject identity and further information about the artist could be opened up to public discussion. We feel this would be a good idea. Interestingly we posted the image on our Facebook page and someone suggested he is a Zouave.’
The contributor then commented: ‘Yes, a Zouave is certainly a possibility, as the uniform is similar. Zouaves were originally recruited from Algerian natives, which explains the ‘Oriental’ dress, and they participated in the Crimean War in the 1850s, which may be related to this statuette.’
There were also several American volunteer regiments (Union and Confederate alike), that wore a zoauve style of uniform, after the fashion at that time prevalent in the French military. Any basic image search will validate the remark. I can see no way of distinguishing the nationality of this man, so you might be best advised to focus on rooting out more about the artist.
Col. Dr. Mike Snook MBE
Was he originally holding a weapon as the raised hand placement is odd otherwise?
It also reminds me of a Zouave soldier . You might want to refer to some of the paintings of former soldier and military painter Alphonse Chigot (1824 -1917), who served in Algeria alongside Zouave soldiers at Battle of Isly. He continued to depict them for many years.
Adolphus Edward Mansal Bayly (1831-1883)? Please see the attached records. He was shown as a sculptor (deceased) when his son married.
This website shows his address in Brighton – 2 Bedford Place.
Here, hopefully, are the attachments.
This is Adolphus Edward Mansel Bayly, born Marylebone 16 November 1830. His wife is Emily Sophia (Reeve) Bayly (married 1857), she ran a boarding house. They lived at 41 King's Road Brighton for a spell in 1874. Mansel (sometimes Mansal) as he was commonly known died 2 May 1883, by which time he was licensed vitualler at the Swan Hotel at Pulborough . There was "An inquest on the body of Adolphus Edward Mansel Bayly, licensed victualler, and proprietor of the Swan Hotel, was held in the Corn Exchange, ..." More info at https://sculpture.gla.ac.uk/view/person.php?id=msib7_1252351100
He's also working at 2 Bedford Place, Brighton https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rOcNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA245&lpg;
He's also a printing inventor, according to the London Gazette
Well done to Marcie for finding Bayly in the records. A.E.M. Bayly was born 16 Nov 1830 at St.Marylebone London, the son of Philip Edward Bailey and his wife Jane, originally from either Co. Dublin or Co.Wicklow. The 1841 census records him living at Morden Hall Academy, a private college for the sons of gentlemen. (Does this mean his father was a teacher?). 1857 he marries Emily Reeves in Pimlico - six children (3bs, 3 gs) of which 3/4 reached adulthood. Appears to have run a boarding house /school) in Brighton according to 1871 census. After this date the trail is confused but an Adolphus Edward Mansal Bayley dies in Pulborough, West Sussex on 15 April 1883. At the time of his death he was licensee of The Swan Hotel (demolished about twenty years ago - some of the contents were deposited in a local museum in Horsham I recall).
There was at the time of his death a thriving artistic community in nearly Amberley (Edward Stott, Frederick Stratton ie) and at Fittleworth where local artists used to leave paintings in lieu of fees at a local hostelry.
(Most of this research was taken from records on ancestry.com but I will evidence in due course).
Sorry Jim Boyd - I sent my information unaware you had posted a few minutes before. Seems I have confirmed your information apart from date of death where we are two weeks apart.
The report into the inquest of Bayly's death is published in the West Sussex County Times on Saturday April 21 1883.
As I do not have a subscription to the The British Newspaper archive I am unable to see what the inquest jury decided was the cause of death.
I am probably taking this task a tad too earnestly. A.E.M. Bayly's father Philip Edward is recorded in the link below as a Merchant of Harcourt Street and Grafton Street, Dublin. Bayly senior died in London in 1855. Therefore the record for Adolphus living at Morden Place School in the 1841 census suggests he was a scholar boarder.
Unless anything significant arises I will call it a day for now.
If it’s the Marmion of Walter Scott’s eponymous poem, the dress is a bit strange. Marmion died at Flodden field, presumably in English noble battle dress (i.e. armour). However the plot of the poem concerns Marmion’s false accusation of treason against Sir Ralph de Wilton, who was exiled and returned home dressed as a Middle Eastern pilgrim. So perhaps the figure is only a part of whole work, and represents Wilton not Marmion himself?
I found this from 1871 (page 365, upper middle column under "Statuary"): https://bit.ly/3gprCMH
Andrew, the dress is not that of a pilgrim, but much more that of a soldier. I doubt this piece relates to Marmion. However, it could depict the moment a soldier was fatally shot while holding up a standard or some weapon.
There is also this (and note the address):
The terracotta bust linked above, however, is not a lady but virtually certainly the god Bacchus, possibly after the antique.
Gregory, regarding your comment of 04/02/2022 16:15, sadly the verdict was: “Suicide whilst temporarily insane”.
Here are my attachments that failed earlier (04/02/2022 15:08).
It's posssible to infer from his children's ages in the 1871 census already produced that Bayly moved to Brighton (initially 2 Bedford Place around 1860/1) from Hammersmith in c. 1859 and more central London in 1857/8, but there are still a lot of gaps to fill, including how be became a sculptor in the first place.
It looks like the figure was holding or intended to hold a weapon in his right hand and a standard or flag in the left hand.
Could he have gone to the Royal Academy as a student in London?
I think he would have had a falcon in his raised hand. Please see this similar statue by Emile Guillemin (1842-1907) on the Invaluable website. https://tinyurl.com/4s992wsy
I disagree, Marcie. The pose is wrong, the hand is the wrong one, and the overall feel of the piece does not support a falconer to my eye.
Yes, I see what you mean, Jacinto. However maybe the Guillemin work will shed light on the Bayly work.
I've looked at a number of on-line articles that refer to Morden Hall Academy where Bayly was a pupil in the 1840s. Amongst the teachers was the minor artist Harry Pollard Ashby. A contemporary , albeit four years younger, was George Adolphus Storey. Storey's autobiography 'Sketches from memory (1899) provides insight into Ashby's relationship with his students. (Merton Historical Society (Bulletin 147 Sept 2003).
G A Story also briefly studied sculpture, although not as a formal pupil, under William Behnes, from 1837 'Sculptor in Ordinary' to Queen Victoria. At this point I speculate from known facts. Behnes had lived and studied in Dublin in his youth at a time when Bayly's family were also in Dublin. It is possible that they knew each others family so is it possible therefore that Behnes was for a time the tutor of A.E.M.Bayly?
I have to say from a position of enthusiastic ignorance I do not see many stylistic similarities but I throw the hypothesis into the ring for other more knowledgeable people to discard.
There is no apparent trace of Bayly in the 1851 or '61 censuses, and while still married -not widowed- in 1881 it's not clear if his wife was then still living at The Swan (she's not in it or mentioned in the inquest on him). He was born at 46 Great Portland Street and his father's address from at least 1842 to '48 was 76 Norton Street, Fitzroy Square. At the 1851 census his father (as 'Edward Bayly', widower) and two sisters were living in Margate, and his father died at 24 Roxburgh Terrace, Haverstock Hill (Hampstead) in September 1855.
That might indicate roughly where he also then lived but he married in April 1857 as a 'Banker's Clerk' living in Norwood, well south of the Thames, his wife being daughter of a Pimlico dairyman. Their eldest son was b. in 'London' apparently in 1858 and eldest daughter in Hammersmith in 1858/9; the rest all in Brighton from 1862 where he doubles as sculptor and boarding-house keeper -though the 1874 directory suggests Mrs Baly really ran that while he sculpted and (if Jacinto's 1871 'Exchange and Mart' advert is indicative), dealt in pieces probably made by others, plus related 'kit': the 'groups' there had apparently arrived 'wrapped' so presumably were not his work.
It all sounds rather odd as a background and, given he sold stuff apparently not his own, I wonder if he also signed pieces he had not made.....
I also can't find him in the 'London Gazette' (Jim Boyd, 04/02/2022 15:48)
It seems to me this piece is not especially decorative, certainly not like the head of Bacchus linked above. Perhaps (like the Marmion piece) it was drawn from a literary work, possibly Lord Byron.
According to the 1881 Census of England and Wales, the artist and his wife were living in separate residences - he lived at the Swan Hotel in Pulborough, Sussex, and his wife lived with six of their children (and many other people) 13 miles away in Horsham, Sussex.
The artist's parents Jane Bayly (née Bready) and Philip Edward Bayly obtained a marriage license in Dublin in 1826. Jane Bayly passed away on September 18, 1849, at 76 Norton Street, Portland Place, London. Philip Edward Bayly seems to had a clothing company, which closed in 1848.
Pieter, re the London Gazette, search for "mansel bayly" (with the inverted commas).
Mansel Bayly patented a printing machine in 1872.
It adds nothing new, but Bayly is listed in Mapping Sculpture:
My comment about the printing machine is related to Jim Boyd’s comment (04/02/2022 15:48).
According to an article in the ‘London Evening Standard’ of September 11, 1875, Bayly was as an exhibitor in the (second autumn) Brighton Exhibition of Paintings.
Actually, I just noticed that the article reported that there were “also three works of sculpture shown”.
This is what we now have....
Well, Pieter, that's a great deal more than what was known before.
The "Fighting Gladiator" is presumably the antique Borghese Gladiator https://bit.ly/3uLZ2O3 and the "Dancing Faun" sounds like the statue of that name found in Pompeii in 1830 https://bit.ly/36a7yMu
The bust of Bacchus linked above was not original work. It is based on the antique bust of Antinous as Bacchus known as the Lansdowne Antinous at the Fitzwilliam Museum, which was found in Hadrian's Villa. See below:
A representation of the death of Marmion:
Thank you for the excellent write-up, Pieter.
As stated, Jane and Philip Edward Bayly were also the parents of Caroline Jane Bayly who was born on October 13, 1832, at 76 Norton Street. She passed away in Lambeth in Q1 1920.
Philip Edward Bayly also had a daughter named Louisa who was born in Dublin in about 1814. Louisa married Charles Francis Yates, a solicitor, on August 23, 1842. She passed away at Kemmendine House, Severnside, Shrewbury, on November 13, 1888.
I have not been able to trace Frances Bayly. Mansel Bayly’s wife Emily Bayly passed away on December 15, 1910.
I finally found an article that mentioned a sculpture by Bayly - a bust of the dramatist Mr. Fitzball in 1864.
Thanks Marcie: I spotted Caroline's birthwhich was what suggested her father was at 8 Union St, Margate in 1851, (but didn't chase Frances).That may therefore just be coincidence (or at most a 'may have been' ) if she can't be found -but it was the only apparent census reference I could see for 1851.
Edward Fitzball (1792-1873) was a very well-known melodramatist, especially for the 'minor' theatres of the first half of the 19th century, and wrote a useful autobiography in 1859: pity his bust is now out of sight.
NPG also only has one late-life image of him, as in his Wiki entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Fitzball
I wonder of Jacob (Simon) should consider Bayly for listing in his NPG directory pf plaster figure makers.
I meant "directory *of* plaster figure makers."
Updated bio. attached
Superb. I have no suggested edits.
The title should be amended for search purposes. Any suggestions?
It's interesting to see where this discussion has ended up from a standing start position. We now know much about the most important moments in Mansel Bayly's wife. I am pleased to have contributed some small details as I am relatively new to such matters.
I can add that 1, West Street , Horsham is a late 19th Century commercial building in red brick and to a gothic style. Thus it is not the same premises as occupied by Bayly's wife in the 1880's. Poor man seems to have had a wretched time.
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995 for Adolphus Edward Mansal Bayly (source)
see attachment - yet another variant spelling.
Gregory -please specify whether that probate in May 1883 or 1884?
Bayly draft updated below, with the probate added (May 1883, having checked).
The matter remaining is a better title for the piece: the idea that it might be a zouave had some early traction and seems to fit.
Online definition: 'a member of a light-infantry corps in the French army, originally of Algerians and long retaining their oriental uniform.'
I would suggest "Kneeling Man (possibly a Zouave infantryman)"
Also, can the collection confirm this is indeed plaster as opposed to marble? It looks more like the latter.
Jacinto, I have asked the Collection to confirm if it is a plaster, or marble, as you suggest. David
Jacinto, the Curatorial team have checked the work, and have said 'despite it being in our collection with a number of plaster sculptures and recorded in our database as plaster, it is in fact porcelain'. Regards David
Fascinating; so perhaps he was more a scupltural modeller than a hammer-and-chisel man. The unglazed appearance suggests it is also perhaps more specifically 'Parian ware' - which is a porcelain imitating marble developed by Minton's around 1845 so I wonder if he had some connection with them.
There were other firms who produced Parian, including Copeland and Wedgwood, and the former claimed to have invented it.
Although much in need of a clean, and thus difficult to tell, 'Parian Ware' would explain a lot. There is a neat Shire publication by Dennis Barker on the subject, but no equivalent example. The person to turn to is Philip Ward Jackson who has made a study of Parian.
There are illustrated books devoted to Parian ware, including one devoted exclusively to Copeland's output.
Can the collection confirm that there are no other marks on this piece, including the flat surface on which it rests (the bottom of the base), which could indicate a manufacturer?
Robert Copeland also did a big book on theirs, easily found online but the basic question of 'who was Bayly' has been answered -so (Kate) you really have to say how much farther this should go.
The potential advantage of finding this work illustrated in a book on Parian ware is that the original title may be given for it, as well as presumably the manufacturer.
I suggest this closes.
Jacinto (03/03/2022 19:34) proposed adjustment of the title to "Kneeling Man (possibly a Zouave infantryman)" and the collection has confirmed it is in biscuit porcelain (Parian), not plaster. That suggests it is not unique but no-one has yet produced another copy that might provide further information on a commercial manufacturer or original description.
When/if one appears a new entry can be posted to update on such matters but the prime question of 'what more can we find on Bayly' has been answered: an updated biography based on the contributions here to that end attached.
Pieter, thank you for the biography.
Although Minton made at least a two individual figures of "Turks" in Parian, this figure does not appear in the reference book "The Parian Phenomenon," though I expect it is not exhaustive. It may have been a trial piece or one that had only very limited production, and there are known Parian pieces for which the manufacturer is not known.