Completed Dress and Textiles, East of England and The Midlands: Artists and Subjects, Portraits: British 19th C 28 Which artist painted this portrait of John Ellis?

Art UK has commented: ‘Someone else has suggested: John Hollins ARA, Royal Academy 1837 no 462 John Ellis’ https://bit.ly/2TbT1cN
The Collection has commented: ‘I'm afraid it's impossible to say, especially as we are aware of at least one other portrait of Ellis and by yet another artist - we have a print of it, the original being painted by John Lucas [unillustrated impression https://bit.ly/3f4ym2v]. He seems to have been someone who had his portrait painted a number of times. Without an illustration in the Chronicle or RA catalogue we can't say whether this painting is either of them, or even neither!’

Here is the Lucas portrait of Ellis:

https://bit.ly/3hIE388

In 1837 Ellis was 48. The Scott portrait was no later than 1849, when Ellis was 60, but we do not know its date. In the 1858 Lucas portrait linked above Ellis was 69.

Hollins seems to have painted in the manner of Lawrence as late as 1850 (see below), which is not the case in our portrait:

https://bit.ly/3bJpMEt

The Leicester portrait seems more provincial, which would favor Scott (although Ellis may have also sat for some other artist/s).

I had wondered if the gates were to Belgrave Hall, which would help narrow down a date range for the portrait.

Below is one of the other portraits by William Scott (1797-1862) referred to in the Leicester Chronicle article:

https://bit.ly/3ozTG3e

Here are the others by or attributed to him on Art UK:

https://artuk.org/discover/artists/scott-william-17971862

If the background shows Belgrave Hall, which is possible, that means the picture is no earlier than 1847, when John Ellis took possession of it. This could fit the William Scott portrait. Compare below:

https://bit.ly/3yDWuRF

Here's an enlargement of the relevant image from the above link:

https://bit.ly/3bNv1Dc

The portrait may have been made in conjunction with Ellis being elected to Parliament in 1848.

Is there anything inscribed on the piece of paper that Ellis is holding?

Also, attached is an image of the gates into what is now Belgrave Gardens in Leicester, with Belgrave House to the left side. The railings and gate posts, with their architectural decorations, appear to be a direct match.

Actually, Ellis moved into Belgrave Hall in May 1846, according to the collection's information. This picture was a gift from a presumed descendant, Edith Ellis, in 1951.

Based on his works on Art UK, Scott was not especially good at painting hands, as is the case in our portrait.

Given the depiction of the gates at Belgrave Hall, we can date this portrait to 1846 or later, probably only a few years later, and definitely younger than in the 1858 portrait by John Lucas (post, Jacinto, 21 May).

As such our portrait could possibly be that mentioned as by William Scott in the Leicester Chronicle, 22 Dec 1849 (post, outset of this discussion).

The portrait is not inconsistent with what is little is known of Scott's output. But the evidence does not allow us to do more than suggest that the artist could be termed as "Attributed to William Scott".

Unless further information is forthcoming, I suggest that we should move towards closing this discussion.

This reminds me a bit of the Scottish artist John Zephaniah Bell [1794-1883] on whom Helen Smailes published a short monograph for the National Gallery of Scotland in 1990
What do we know of the life of the sitter? Bell was a member of the Sandemanian sect and some of his commissions came from Sandemanians. Faraday and Wiiliam Godwin were members

Interesting idea, John Zephaniah Bell, but not a runner without evidence. I've been back to Helen Smailes' short monograph. It seems to me, firstly that Bell's portraits are more close focused, often with a dark background and taken closer to the subject, apart from differences in handling. And secondly there is no obvious link between Quaker Ellis and Sandemanian Bell.

As to Ellis's life, see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ellis_{LPARENTHESES} businessman)

Jacob, alas, your link is not working.

Sorry for the link. Instead google: John Ellis (business man) wikipedia

John Hollins ARA Royal Academy 1837 no 462 John Ellis Esq
We do not seem to have much evidence for this artist' s style
The sitter being Chairman of the Midland Railway might have opted for this Birmingham painter
He was a Quaker and painted by B R Haydon in his 1840 World Anti Slavery Convention

The 2 Haydon portraits of Wordsworth are the portraits to compare this with

A side issue, but what is he holding? See attached detail, which I hope enlarges but a higher res really needed: a 'railway item'?

forgive me - I should have looked back to the start of this discussion

Pieter, that detail as requested. David

Jacob, further to your comment 10/07/21 I have asked the Collection for their thoughts to date. Jacob

Thanks for the detail: not as 'railway' as I'd hoped - just his spectacles lying on the table, of which he is perhaps holding the metal case.

Jacob, the Collection have signalled that 'attributed to William Scott' seems likely, and I have just asked them if they would accept such a recommendation if it were to follow. David

Following my post on 10 July, given the depiction of the gates at Belgrave Hall, we can date this portrait to 1846 or later, probably only a few years later, and definitely younger than in the 1858 portrait by John Lucas (post, Jacinto, 21 May).

As such our portrait could possibly be that mentioned as by William Scott in the Leicester Chronicle, 22 Dec 1849 (post, outset of this discussion).

The portrait is not inconsistent with what is little is known of Scott's output. But the evidence does not allow us to do more than suggest that the artist could be termed as "Attributed to William Scott".

On this basis, and subject to the collection and other group leaders, I recommend that we close this discussion.

Jacob. I am perfectly happy to follow your lead on this. No further comments necessary.

The Collection have commented: 'Yes, 'attributed to William Scott' would be fine and we're happy for Belgrave Hall to be mentioned in the description.'