Completed Military History, Portraits: British 19th C, South West England: Artists and Subjects 47 Can you identify this Lieutenant of the Grenadier Company of the 32nd Regiment?

Topic: Subject or sitter

Sometimes it is possible to identify a sitter according to the military awards which he has received. Major Hugo White of the Cornwall Regimental Museum has commented on this unidentified portrait as follows:

The head seems to have been painted in a far more professional manner than the uniform and gives the appearance of having been painted from life. On the other hand, the depiction of the uniform is full of obvious errors and is somewhat crudely executed. I am inclined to think that this is a portrait of a man in his forties who was present in the Peninsula Campaign and at Waterloo but had long retired from active service. He may have wished that he should be shown in uniform, but unfortunately, the artist had little knowledge of the correct details of the dress.

The Military General Service Medal, 1793–1814 was not issued until 1848 (after a great deal of wrangling). The portrait shows what purports to be an officer of the Grenadier Company of the 32nd (Cornwall) Regiment wearing the pattern of uniform coatee which remained in service from 1829 to 1856. If the gentleman had been at least nineteen in the early days of the Peninsula Campaign in 1808, he would have been at least forty by the time he received his MGSM. This ties up with the apparent age of the subject.

There were three officers in the 32nd Regiment who were awarded eight clasps to the MGSM and the Waterloo Medal. Assuming that the seven clasps shown in the portrait is an artistic error, then the sitter might be:

Lieutenant John Boase
Lieutenant Theobald Butler
Lieutenant Thomas Ross-Lewin

The collection comments:

The uniform details give you a lot of information, accurate or not. With the help of Stephen Bull, a curator and expert in military history from Lancashire Museums we were able to narrow the sitter down to the following;

1. Regiment: 32nd (Cornwall) Regiment of Foot (from shoulder belt plate and white facing colour)
2. Grenadier Company (from grenade on shoulder belt plate and epaulettes)
3. Medals: Waterloo, and General Service with seven bars (i.e. battles or campaigns)
Officer rank (from epaulettes)
4. Date: soon after 1848 (from date of medal issue, style of uniform and age of sitter)

Given the right references, we might very well be able to find an officer, of the grenadier company of the 32nd, who was at Waterloo and many other battles, and still alive c.1848. We have not been able to research further but have been told that the regimental museum in Bodmin may be able to help:

The names that you have mentioned don't ring any bells to why we should have this portrait in our collection. At one point we thought the sitter/piece may be a Memoriam card in frame – for Lieutenant Henry Butterworth of Heybrook.

Cliff Thornton, Entry reviewed by Art UK

Completed, Outcome

This discussion is now closed. The sitter has been identified as Lieutenant Henry Butterworth (1783–1860), who fought at Waterloo. The painting has been attributed to Edwin Greenwood (1808–1874). Art UK’s record has been updated accordingly and the new information will be visible on the website in due course.

Thank you to all for participating in this discussion. To those viewing this discussion for the first time, please see below for all comments that led to this conclusion.


Christopher Bryant,

A quick Google search for Lieutenant Henry Butterworth of Heybrook revealed a posting on the Napoleonic Wars Forum of another portrait of clearly the same sitter, wearing the same uniform but at a younger age. He is indeed Lieutenant Henry Butterworth. The roll of the Military General Service medal indicates his entitlement to six bars but there were inevitably discrepancies, whether authorized or not. Here is a link to the Napoleonic Wars Forum post:

The information provided by your other correspondents about the uniform is not entirely correct. Butterworth wears the uniform of an officer of the grenadier company of the 32nd, but the date is as worn at Waterloo, not c.1829- 1856. While not particularly well painted the depiction of the uniform is essentially accurate. Presumably Butterworth preserved his old Waterloo uniform, a circumstance I have noted among several other Waterloo veterans. There was no visible rank distinction between the commissioned ranks of Ensign, Lieutenant or Captain for officers of flank companies in the infantry.

Osmund Bullock,

Well done, Chris. The two portraits seem to be variations with a common source - or perhaps ours was based on the pastel. Interestingly the latter shows the correct number of clasps (?bars) - for Roleia, Vimiera, Talavera, Salamanca, Pyrenees & Nivelle (though Butterworth's 1860 obituary posted on the Napoleonic Wars Forum mentioned other actions, and wrongly suggested he had eight clasps).

I wonder why the Collection apparently discarded the Butterworth identity - perhaps because 1820 was his last appearance on the active list (he was transferred to the 35th and went permanently on the half-pay in May), which would be hard to reconcile if the uniform were, as they believed, post-1829. See (p.153) & (p.346). Chris, do you by any chance have an image from your reference collection that would show them that this is right for Waterloo - even a basically similar one (albeit with different facings) from another regiment would probably suffice?

Other than that, many thanks to the the NW Forum, which has done all our work for us, with plenty of further detail including the sitter's dates (1783-1860). I attach Henry's 1851 Census entry.

[Just for the record, the regimental history of Butterworth's Regt, relates that "... the 32nd fought at the battle of Quatre Bras, arriving about 2 pm just in time to help halt the French advance ... Two days later at Waterloo the 32nd were stationed opposite the French main attacks, stoically standing their ground before attacking Napoleon’s assaulting troops. There were 647 men of all ranks at the start of 16th June 1815, and at the end of the 2 days there were only 131 men left standing; they suffered the greatest loss of any regiment on that day."]

1 attachment
Christopher Bryant,

Both the Rochdale and the NWF images are too small and low in resolution to provide much detail, but squinting hard at the earlier NWF portrait I can just see four or five battle honours represented on Butterworth's belt plate. In addition to “Peninsula” and “Waterloo” granted in 1815 these would be the Peninsular war battle honours granted to the 32nd over several years starting in 1816. Insufficient detail of Butterworth’s plate can be discerned in the image to correlate which honours are depicted in relation to their dates of authorization. If I may revise my original suggestion, the belt plate and a few tailoring features point to a date closer to Butterworth’s retirement on half pay in 1820. The fashionable cut of collars for most British officer’s uniforms evolved from an open “V” at the time of Waterloo to generally squared off and closed by c.1820. Likewise the cut of lapels and corresponding line of buttons was generally straighter in 1815 but evolved to show an outward curve between 1815 and 1820. Given Butterworth’s retirement in 1820, the indications are that the uniform in both portraits is that which he was wearing at the time he went on half pay. I also realize that if Butterworth was wounded three times at Waterloo that uniform was unlikely to have been fit to wear for a subsequent portrait!

One aspect of 19th c. British military portraiture that is useful to keep in mind is that it was common practice to paint in subsequently awarded medals and decorations to existing portraits, sometimes many years after they were originally painted. I have seen many instances of Military General Service medals added after its award in 1848 to much earlier portraits, and similar instances for other campaign medals and decorations. Medals and decorations are consequently not a reliable basis for establishing the date of a military portrait in this period.

Charles Griffin,

I cannot comment on the sitter but I can offer an image that confirms the uniform as that of the Waterloo period. This is a quick sketch of a miniature seen by Percy Sumner who was a uniform enthusiast of the first part of the 20th century. The unifom is that of a flank officer. Sumner doesn't say whether Thomas Cassan was a light company or grenadier officer, but the shoulderr wings would be similar. The diagonal gold lines from the straps to the ends of the fringe, being the edges of the wings, explains the odd curved lines in the 'Butterworth' portrait.

1 attachment
Kieran Owens,

Attached is a copy of Henry Butterworth's obituary, as appeared in the Manchester Courier & Lancashire General Advertiser on Saturday 16th June 1860.

Osmund Bullock,

Thank you, Kieran, though I think you'll find all of that's in the discussion on the Napoleonic Wars Forum linked to by Chris Bryant at the top.

Kieran Owens,

Thank you Osmund, in return, but I think you will also find that the Napoleonic Wars Forum reprints the obituary from "the Birmingham Gazette as reprinted in the Melbourne Argus of the 7th November 1860", which leaves out a detail that is to be found in the Manchester Courier version. It is not necessarily an important detail, nor may it be an interesting one, but it is left out none the less. My modest intention was to present any information that would give as full an account of his life as is available, as one never knows what such trivia might lead to if considered by others to be of relevance.

Osmund Bullock,

My apologies, Kieran - at first glance they seemed identical. I wasn't trying to be snide, I just thought you might have missed the link at the top to the NW forum, which of course has lots more information.

Kieran Owens,

No apology needed. We are all working towards the same factually accurate results.

Keith Orford,

I have a very similar portrait, an oil on canvas painted in 1851 by Edwin Greenwood in 1851. He was an artist working in Rochdale then, the home town of Lt (so called Captain) Butterworth, a magistrate and Deputy Lieutenant.

1 attachment
Barbara Bryant,

Thank you to Keith Orford. An attribution to Edwin Greenwood seems very possible. Possibly to an unlocated oil of which the Touchstones Rochdale picture might be a copy.
There is only one work by Greenwood on Art UK and that is at a museum in Rochdale. The work displays a similarly provincial style. Can anything else be said about Edwin Greenwood?

An Edwin Greenwood, late of No.41, Cheetham Street, Rochdale, 'Painter and Gilder', was in Lancaster Castle as a debtor as recorded by the London Gazette 9th April 1841 [Google Books]

Barbara Bryant,

The same Edwin Greenwood's financial difficulties also saw him in court in Lancaster in July 1841 where he was listed as being a
"Portrait painter and Gilder"

1 attachment

An amateurish googling of ancestry sites has come up with twins, Mary Holt Greenwood and Sarah Greenwood, children of Edwin Greenwood, painter, and Mary Anne Greenwood, of Cheetham Street, baptised 4 Jan 1837 at St Chad's Rochdale. Another daughter Susannah Ashworth (née Greenwood), was married at St Mary in the Baum, Wardleworth, Lancs on 9 Sept 1876, when Edwin is described as an 'artist'.

So Edwin Greenwood, originally a painter and gilder, seems to have called himself an artist by 1876 and may well have had a side line in copying portraits.

By the way our sitter and that in Keith Orford's version are surely quite different to that in the pastel posted by Christopher Bryant at the start of the discussion. The hair and mouth are very different, although the uniform is identical as if from the same standardised original. The difference in the number of bars/clasps, also suggests a different individual is portrayed.

Kieran Owens,

Attached is a composite of the three portraits mentioned in this discussion. Are they not all of Butterworth, albeit at different ages? The one on the right being a younger version, with six bars (Roleia, Vimiera, Talavera, Sahagun, Pyrennes and Nivell), the other two on the left being later updates, for whatever reason, and both having seven bars. There are subtle differences between these two "later" portraits, as in there are seven buttons on the right hand side of the jacket in the extreme left portrait and only six on the portrait in the middle. Trivial, perhaps, but noticeable.

Regarding the bars on the medal, the following were the dates of each action, as mentioned in his obituary (as attached above) with Butterworth's age, in brackets, at the time of each battle:

1. Roleia - 17th August 1808 (26)
2. Vimiera - 21st August 1808 (26)
3. Talavera - 27th-28th July 1809 (27)
4. Lines of Torres Vedras - 1810 (28)
5. Salamanca - 22nd July 1812 (30)
6. Pyrenees - 25th July 1813 (30)
7. Nevill - 10th November 1813 (30)
8. Orthes - 27th February 1814 (31)

1 attachment
Osmund Bullock,

The two oil versions seem pretty close; and on the basis of Keith Orford’s information about his painting, I agree with Barbara that an attribution to Edwin Greenwood would be quite reasonable. I’m not sure, though, that Andrew is right to dismiss the connection with the pastel. I think they have a great deal in common, and the somewhat different appearance can easily be accounted for by the oil(s) being painted much later. More of that in a minute.

An important question for Mr Orford:. Is your portrait identified as (or otherwise known to be) Lt Henry Butterworth, or did you not know his identity before coming here? And how is the artist and date known – is that actually on the picture?

Osmund Bullock,

There is no doubt that the uniform depicted in all cases is that of a grenadier officer of the 32nd Foot – Christopher Bryant (who knows a very great deal) argues convincingly that it dates from a few years after Waterloo, c.1820.

The medal/clasp evidence is confusing and inconclusive – while Butterworth (plus one other, Lt James Robinson) was awarded both the Waterloo Medal (issued 1816/17) and the belated 1848 Military General Service Medal with SIX clasps for Peninsular war actions (as shown on the pastel), there was only one officer of the 32nd Foot who received exactly SEVEN clasps (as in the oils)...and he did *not* receive the Waterloo Medal! So whoever is depicted in the two oil paintings, the wrong number of clasps is shown.

If it should be six then Butterworth remains a candidate, along with Robinson; if it should be EIGHT then the three others mentioned in the introduction (also Waterloo men) become the possibles. As Christopher mentions re the clasps, “there were inevitably discrepancies, whether authorized or not”; this is born out by Butterworth’s obituary, that states that his eight major Peninsular actions had earned him eight bars, and his tomb which bears the names of the same eight battles. Could the “missing” two have been a bone of contention, and a compromise seven ended up on the later portraits? It seems less likely that an artist would have shown *fewer* clasps than the sitter had on his ribbon and was entitled to.

Osmund Bullock,

A further problem with a different sitter is that of all the five theoretically possible, as far as we know only Butterworth had any connection with Rochdale, and it was a strong one – indeed he was clearly something of a local celebrity in the military context. Moreover a bit more research reveals that Lt Robinson went on the half-pay in 1823 (and from a different regt), Boase in 1827 (ditto), and Butler not until 1834 – Butterworth’s 1820 retirement fits the apparent period of the uniform best.

Ross-Lewin might seem a good contender, as he went in 1822; but he was a light company, not a grenadier officer, and moreover like many in the 32nd he was an Irishman – he returned to his native Co. Clare, and in 1857 died there. A description of him in the introduction to his brother’s memoirs rules him out anyway: “ first sight his appearance was most extraordinary. His aquiline and somewhat large nose had suffered terribly from frostbite and exposure to the weather. It boasted all the colours of the rainbow, and in addition to this, was deeply pitted and scarred with gravel from the field of Waterloo ... He retired about the year 1822, and in 1848 received the Peninsula War Medal, with eight clasps.” Most interestingly it adds that “this decoration he would never wear, for he contended that he was entitled to nine bars.” So the number of clasps was indeed an issue for some of those involved. See

Osmund Bullock,

I would suggest a likely sequence is as follows. (1) The pastel of Butterworth was drawn at around the time of his retirement in 1820, when he was in his late 30s. (2) c.1848 the Peninsular medal with his official six clasps was added to this portrait (as was common) when the medal was finally issued – unlike the two oils (in which both medals appear to be part of the composition), the MGSM in the pastel (on the right) seems awkwardly placed. (3) c.1848-50 our oil was painted based on the earlier work, but with the sitter’s age increased – perhaps a little flatteringly, as in 1848 Butterworth was 65...but to show him as too old a man would look a bit silly in uniform; and when depicting the Peninsular medal an extra clasp was added that he (or whoever it was painted for) felt he deserved. (4) In 1851 Keith Orford’s version was painted by Edwin Greenwood – a copy of (3), and quite possibly the same artist was responsible.

I was going to attach a composite of all three portraits, but Kieran has beaten me to it. I will give you all the info I've gleaned on the artist Edwin Greenwood (1808-1874) in another post...though I suspect Kieran may get their first! Actually on reflection I'll attach the triple image anyway, as it shows the three portraits in the order I think they were created.

1 attachment
Osmund Bullock,

Edwin Greenwood was born at Rochdale on 1st Sept 1808, and christened there at the parish church of St Chad on 27th November. He was the son of James Greenwood, a local school master with premises in Drake Street. James seems to have been connected to – or at least sympathetic towards – both non-conformists and reformers. At the beginning of the century his school room was used by both the Particular Baptists and the Unitarians before they built their own chapels; and there is a record of him in 1820 contributing to a satirical poem that was sent to the town’s hated new absentee Vicar, William Hay (and carefully preserved by the recipient, along with hundreds of other written attacks). Hay had been rewarded with the rich living of Rochdale by the powers-that-be for his notably culpable role in the 1819 Peterloo massacre, and for his subsequent sturdy defence of its necessity and downplaying of its seriousness.

But James’s son Edwin seems not to have trodden even such gently interesting paths, as apart from the April/July bankruptcy proceedings already mentioned, there are few signs of his existence to be found outside the normal vital records. There is no mention of him in local histories, nor can I see anything relevant in local archives (though he has several northern namesakes).

Osmund Bullock,

The first definite adult sighting of him is when he married in March 1831 Mary Ann Holt at St Chad. No occupations are given, but in April of the following year, when his eldest child Maria was baptised, he is already described as a ‘painter’ – most likely always of the artistic type, rather than of houses. A son and four more daughters followed between 1834 & 1841, and ‘painter’ is always his profession. His only son and one daughter died as children, but three of the four surviving daughters married. In 1836 Edwin was apparently the victim of a minor theft (the thief received three months). In 1841 and again in 1848 he is listed in local directories as a Portrait Painter, but seemingly not thereafter. Nevertheless in all the Censuses from ’41 to ’71 that is how he describes himself, with a minor variation in 1861 of ‘Artist, Portrait Taker in Oil”. And in the records of posthumous marriages (and remarriages) of his daughters 1876-80 they all describe their late father as ‘Artist’.

He moves around a bit, but always within central Rochdale. Apart from the theft I have found just one other newspaper mention. In June 1858 he advertised in a local paper the establishment of a (Oil) Portrait Club at his house – possibly an idea born of necessity, as at the foot of the same ad he offers stabling for two horses to let. See attached.

That seems to be all, until his death (at Rochdale) at the age of 65 in the 2nd quarter of 1874 – probably in May, as towards the end of that month there seems to have been an inquest on his death, later adjourned. No mention of it that I can find appears in the local press, so probably neither he nor the circumstances of his death was deemed newsworthy.

All one can say of his life is that, for a presumably educated man who operated as a portrait painter for at least 30 and probably 40 years, it was remarkably unremarkable. And the same is true, I fear, of his artistic talent.

1 attachment
Kieran Owens,

Osmund, in regards to the details of both of the sitter and his various aspects, as well as of the life of Edwin Greenwood, congratulations on such superb research. I can only add the attached assessment, which appeared as part of an article entitled "Dinner to Samuel Bamford and the Lancashire Poets", with appeared in The Manchester Guardian of the 14th February 1849. It is a little less harsh than your own opinion of Greenwood's talents!

Osmund Bullock,

You're very kind, Kieran. Sorry about the slight Butterworth overlap, but I'm glad we share the view that the pastel and oils show the same man. I thought you might also be working on Greenwood in parallel with with me, and feel a bit guilty that I slipped in ahead - and then only by dint of staying up much of the night! Complete madness.

The 1849 Manchester Guardian article is a good find of exactly the type I'd hoped to see - well done, I completely missed it. Would that there were others. It seems incredible (and sad) that even a provincial artist of questionable quality could paint portraits for 30 years of the mid-C19th and not have one of them mentioned in the local press.

The artist information supplied solely above, boiled down for ready reference:

Edwin Greenwood, 1808-74

Edwin Greenwood was born at Rochdale on 1 September 1808, and baptised at the parish church of St Chad on 27 November. He was the son of James Greenwood, a local schoolmaster with premises in Drake Street, who appears to have had links with both non-conformists and political reformers. Early in the century his school room was used by both the Particular Baptists and the Unitarians before they built their own chapels and he was one of many who in 1820 who took objection (in the form of a satirical poem) to the town’s hated new absentee vicar, William Hay who had been rewarded with the living for his notably culpable role in the 1819 Peterloo massacre, and its subsequent justification. In March 1831, Edwin married Mary Ann Holt at St Chad’s and first mention of him as a ‘painter’ is at the baptism there of their eldest child, Maria, in April 1832. A son and four more daughters followed between 1834 and 1841, including twin girls (Mary Holt and Sarah) baptised at St Chad’s on 7 January 1837 when the family was living in Cheetham Street, one of several addresses they occupied in central Rochdale. Their only son and one daughter died as children, but three of the four surviving daughters married. In 1841 and in 1848 Greenwood is listed in local directories as a ‘Portrait Painter’, but seemingly not thereafter, although the census returns of 1841-71 say the same, with the variant (in 1861) of ‘Artist, Portrait Taker in Oil’. Similarly the records of his daughters’ marriages (and remarriages), from that of Susannah in 1876 to 1880, all describe their late father as ‘Artist’. Greenwood clearly had financial difficulties, including bankruptcy: in 1841, when ‘late of Cheetham Street’ according to the 'London Gazette' of 9 April, he was in prison for debt in Lancaster Castle and at the subsequent court appearance in July was described as ‘Portrait painter and Gilder’. On 26 June 1858 the 'Rochdale Pilot 'advertised a ‘Portrait Club’ about to be established at his house, then ‘the Elephant and Castle, Manchester Road, Rochdale’, adding ‘N.B. – To Let, Stabling for two horses’, both of which suggest he may have also doubled as a publican. He appears to have died in Rochdale, aged 65, in the second quarter of 1874, probably in May as there was an inquest on his death later in the month, though proceedings were adjourned and the outcome not reported. Greenwood appears to have been a portraitist of modest but competent talent, and though without a known exhibiting or critical record, was locally appreciated: Samuel Bamford (1788-1872) the Lancashire radical writer and poet, speaking at a dinner given in his honour and that of other Lancashire poets in February 1849 ‘said that though he believed there was no poet in Rochdale, there was a painter there, Edwin Greenwood, who was, he thought, superior to Tim Bobbin in the command of his pencil, and in truth of delineation, while his imagination in the design of his works was almost unbounded. He was one of the best artists we had in Lancashire; but he was like many others who had great qualities – he did not make so much use of them as he should do.’ ('Manchester Guardian', 14 February).

Osmund Bullock,

The lack of local press coverage of Edwin Greenwood’s 1874 death and/or inquest is explained by the BNA having no online coverage of the only Rochdale newspaper then extant, the Rochdale Observer, between 1871 & 1913. Similarly his lack of appearances earlier on is doubtless due, at least in part, to there having been no local newspaper at all of any significance before the Observer was founded in 1856 (though there was some coverage of the town in the press of nearby places, especially Manchester) – a few other periodicals appeared in Rochdale at various dates between the late ‘20s & 50s, but none lasted more than a few months.

Nevertheless I have finally managed to find mention of one portrait he painted – a Masonic one presented to a retiring Brother in the nearby village of Littleborough in 1867. See attached 1. Furthermore it seems that Pieter’s idea that he may have also kept a pub (which I rather doubted at first) is spot on. In March 1859 Greenwood was prosecuted (though excused by the bench) for allowing out-of-hours drinking at the Elephant & Castle, and just two weeks later the beer-house was advertised as to let. It had previously been to let in August 1856 – this may well have been when he took it on (though it’s possible he already had it, and was even then trying to give it up). See attached 2

Thanks Osmund: glad the Iimb I was out on re the ale-house didn't drop off, though promted byn another recent example; not an artist but a boat-builder and renter-out who was Turner's late neighbour in Chelsea and also latterly ran the pub next-door before his boatshed became site of another alongside. I suspect that simple beer-selling was a pretty common doubling-up with other things, in which wives,widows and children (as happened in the Chelsea case) became involved.

Kieran Owens,

Some additional crumbs on the life of Edwin Greenwood. It would appear that members of the Greenwood family of Rochdale were involved with the co-operative movement known as the Rochdale Society of Equitable Pioneers, who were formed in 1844.

In his history of the Rochdale Pioneers, 1844 - 1892', George Jacob Holyoake writes that "Towards the close of 1850, a new Society takes its place in our narrative namely, the Rochdale District Corn Mill Society." A similar one had long flourished in Leeds, a history of which would be a very instructive addition to co-operative literature. The Rochdale imitation commenced its active operations about the close of 1850. This Corn Mill Society, meeting at the Elephant and Castle, Manchester Road, received encouragement from the Store."

Also, at a date that I cannot yet ascertain, Greenwood's talents for satirical poetry are mentioned, as follows, in William Robertson's 'The Social and Political History of Rochdale (1889):

"The inhabitants were next entertained with two memorable squibs, criticising the Tory banquet of rejoicing at the Flying Horse, Packer Street, and even now they are often rehearsed. The first was written by Mr. Edwin Greenwood, a portrait painter, whose father was a schoolmaster. It was entitled, 'A New Song by George O'Pinder's' and is worthy of being reprinted." (which it is, in the book).

Finally, in "The Diaries of Samuel Bamford" the radical writer mentions meeting Edwin Greenwood and going on a tour of, what seems to me to be, pubs in the Rochdale are. A footnote in the year 2000 edition of this book describes Greenwood as having been born c.1809, and as being a "jobbing portrait painter, and balladeer, apparently active in Rochdale area until the early 1870s." The book also mentions that there is a biographical entry for Greenwood in A. G. Parke's 'Rochdale Artists', which is available in the Rochdale Local Studies Library. Perhaps an Art Detective in the Rochdale area would be kind enough to copy this entry and post it on this discussion's page.

Osmund Bullock,

Excellent, Kieran, those last two books are great finds. I'm less sure of the Pioneers connection, however. I spotted the name/pub association a few days back, but despite much research I can find no genealogical link between the Greenwoods involved in the Corn Mill project in 1850 (Abraham and George) and Edwin's family. It is not impossible they were cousins, but if so, not close ones - and Greenwood is (like Butterworth) a very common name thereabouts.

Moreover I don't think Edwin can have been running the Elephant & Castle as early as that - in the 1851 Census his was living at the back of Nelson St. This is only half a mile or so from where the pub once stood; but with stables and a brewhouse it was clearly a property of some substance, and I think it more likely he'd have lived on the premises.

As an alternative to hoping for a Rochdale Art Detective, one might consider emailing or calling Local Studies: . Or if the Collection is following this, perhaps they might oblige - I think they're in the same building.

Kieran Owens,

I appreciate all of your points, Osmund. I will try to provide some better details of his addresses and any attachments to the radical and co-operative movement. In the meantime, I have written to Rochdale Local Studies Library to see if they might send to me the details that are contained within Parke's 'Rochdale Artists'.

Kieran Owens,

The marriage details for Mary Holt Greenwood, twin of Susannah above, are as follows:

Marriage - 21 Feb 1880 at St Mary in the Baum, Wardleworth, Lancs.
Groom - Charles Henry Whipp, 41, Grocer, Bachelor, Lomax St.
Bride - Mary Holt Greenwood, 43, Spinster, 32 Whitehall St.
Groom's Father - John Whipp, Deceased, Auctioneer
Bride's Father - Edwin Greenwood, Deceased, Artist
Witness - Thomas Greaves Sharples; Maria Greaves Sharples
Married by Banns by J. Parkin Wright, Officiating Minister

Osmund Bullock,

I have most, and quite possibly all of Edwin's addresses, Kieran, and details of all his daughters' marriages and baptisms (and indeed those of his siblings); but I tend to avoid posting masses of detailed stuff like this unless it's particularly interesting or illuminating. These discussions can get rather overwhelmed with genealogical minutiae (I've been guilty of this in the past), and Art UK are keen to try and keep the forum digestible to as wide an audience as possible. If you can find a definite link between Edwin and the 'Pioneer' Greenwoods that would be great, of course.

Bear in mind, too, that we are far from certain that the portrait we're researching is by him at all. I would still be very interested to hear back from Keith Orford about his version - I fear my request of 5 days ago may have got buried in subsequent discussions. I wonder if Art UK could email him to say we'd love to know more?

Kieran Owens,

Osmund, your point is well made and has been duly noted.

Kieran Owens,

One small clarification. I only added the details of his daughters marriage in order to confirm that Edwin Greenwood was deceased by 1880.

Keith Orford,

Gosh, what a rabbit I set running with my information about Greenwood. My attribution of the sitter to Butterworth was solely by a chain of reasoning:
1. The signature is E Greenwood 1851. A search of the 1851 census shows only one possibility, Edwin Greenwood of Rochdale.
2. The MGS and Waterloo medal rolls give just a few possibilities from the 32nd Regiment having both medals.
3. The 1851 census for the Rochdale area contains one of these - a man with the right regiment, rank and medals. Moreover Butterworth had (about) the right number of bars to the MGS.
Not 100% but I would probably convict on the evidence.

Barbara Bryant,

Thank you for this further information, Keith. This does rather firm up the attribution to Greenwood and the identification of the sitter.

Barbara Bryant,

I think we can close this discussion now. A great deal of useful information has come forward thanks to Kieran and Osmund among others. The collection will want to read and assess it, as well as check further in publications such as Rochdale Artists. For the purposes of Art Detective and answering the original question, an identification of the artist as Edwin Greenwood (1808-1874) of Rochdale and the sitter as Lieutenant Henry Butterworth (1783-1860) who fought at Waterloo is now clear. If the collection agrees, the information about this portrait can now be updated.

Edward Stone,

The collection has been contacted about this recommendation.

Osmund Bullock,

A final word about the medal clasp anomaly. While looking on the BNA for contemporary mention of Henry Butterworth’s 1848 Military General Service Medal – this before I realised there was no Rochdale newspaper coverage before 1856 – I happened upon the story of another Lancashire Peninsular veteran, Richard “Margerison” (in fact Morginson) of the 52nd Foot, who felt short-changed at the number of clasps (12) he had received. The regiment’s commanding officer in Blackburn took the matter up on his behalf, and two years later he received one of the two extra bars he felt he was entitled to. See attached.

If something similar happened to Butterworth (who thought he should have eight bars), it would explain perfectly how he came to be depicted wearing six in the earlier pastel portrait, and seven in the two subsequent oils. Close-ups of the pastel when it appeared at auction in 2013 are viewable here: . The MGS medal does indeed look as if it was drawn in later, as I surmised. The six clasps are clearly named and are those credited to Butterworth in the official roll, i.e. Roleia, Vimiera, Talavera, Salamanca, Pyrenees and Nivelle – but not Nive or Orthes.

Andy Walsh,

I have a painting of Charles Holt by E.Greenwood dated 1845, inherited from my family in Rochdale, which I guess is Edwin Greenwood. Interesting to learn so much about Edwin Greenwood here, but I'd like to know more about Charles Holt though. (... it inspired me to attempt my self portrait!)

1 attachment
Barbara Bryant,

Thank you, Andy. Holt was the family name of Edwin Greenwood's wife Mary Anne (they married in 1831, see above). It may well be that Charles was her brother or father.

As noted two months ago, we have arrived at a conclusion, so I would refer anyone interested to look at the most recent comments. We can now close this discussion and the collection might like to update its information.

Dear All,
I can confirm that based on your wonderful research we are able to change our records both internally and on Art UK.
Attributed to Edwin Greenwood (1808-1874)
Title/ sitter amended as Lieutenant Henry Butterworth (1783-1860) who fought at Waterloo.
Thank you for gifting your time and skills to help give back this painting its identity. Reading through the comments has very much been very exciting (and much like an episode of ‘Fake or Fortune’)!
Thank you also to the team at ArtUK! Without Art Detective, access to a knowledgebase and such a variety of dedicated researchers across the country would not be possible.
My apologies for our lack of discussion activity over the past year in this conversation, it is simply a case of so much to do, little staff and less time. Your comments and attachments have all been saved as valuable documentation for the artwork.
I have attached an image of a framed memorial that I have since found in our Museum collection, which fantastically helps join up the dots. The link between this and the painting has now been made with our museum team too.
A sincere thank you once again. If you are ever in Rochdale, please do visit!
Anna Bates Patel
Art Gallery Coordinator

1 attachment
Osmund Bullock,

Your comments are very much appreciated, Anna, and thank you for sharing the image of the framed remembrance card - I wonder if it once hung beneath the portrait?